[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
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[email protected] and now here's your host, Ler.
[00:00:21] Speaker A: Welcome. I had an epiphany over the weekend. I was doing some digging around and stumbled across a topic I thought was great. And while I wait for my gaming PC to get itself figured out, I thought I would dig into a new type of topic that may or may not be of interest. This requires you be of a certain age or greater, I think.
But you'll notice topic specifically talks about pay it forward.
Let me just define that up front like it's important.
Pay it forward is the idea you're not going to be around forever. And what you do, whatever contributions that you have, whatever it is that you do, there should be somebody behind you that's going to follow, whether directly or indirectly in your footsteps with whatever craft.
Many people throughout history have felt failed at the concept of paying it forward. I accepted this because I understood when I met the director who I wrote an article about and I did promise an episode and I think today I'm going to intersperse pieces and parts, but I do want to dedicate an episode.
The director pushed me. The director gave me an opportunity, but she pushed me. She pushed me harder than anybody ever had since before.
I never had a person who understood the way to get me out of my shell.
Some that I worked with at that same time didn't think very highly of this person because she would cuss and swear like a sailor, she smoked like a sailor and she was very abrupt and very abrasive and not the nicest person to deal with.
But I was never fixated on the personal. I was always fixated on long as I get better at this, long as I get paid more, and as long as I develop and grow, that's all I care about. I don't care about people's feelings. I don't some who and some of whom might actually be listening to the show welcome if you're new. But some listening to the show would hear me say that, that I don't really care what you feel about it. And they would swear I lack emotional intelligence. That's not true.
Listening to and focusing on people's feelings that are not in a direct keyword, direct relationship with you is how you set yourself up for failure. When I say a direct relationship, I don't mean every single immediate family member. A direct relationship is A two way proposition. If you have somebody on the personal or non personal side that's trying to force a one way relationship, meaning they're trying to get what they want, you be damned. That's not a direct relationship, that's an indirect relationship. I don't care about anybody I'm not in a direct relationship with.
So in the workplace there's no such thing as for the most part as a direct relationship. To that degree where I would care about your feelings, I don't. I care about the work that needs to be done because the work doesn't care about my feelings.
And I accepted this. We're in a different era now and I would argue place by place it kind of differs. But what I accepted is that the work doesn't care about what I think the work. There are skills that you have when you go to work that you should be contributing. I'm not talking about flipping on your cell phone, I'm talking about doing the work. You should be on your J o B for eight hours. Focus on the work. Turn the phone off.
But somebody might need me. An emergency. Doot doot doot. If it was truly an emergency, they'll have another way to reach you. As in call the front desk to make sure it's an actual thing. Turn the phone off. No text messages. Regardless, when I go to work, there are skills that I contribute.
Those skills are in high demand because it's a niche product that I deal with. It's not a common product.
It's very difficult to learn this product and if you don't have constant hands on with it, you lose it. It's hard to get it back. I was out of it for a couple of years and it took me a while to get my groove back. And then, you know, I was able to get in there and I would argue now I'm 50 times better than I ever have been because I've understood this is a platform that's in high demand. But it's niche and it's difficult to staff for.
Often I'm asked to mentor somebody and I enjoy doing it. I want someone that can take over because I'm not going to be there forever.
But I'm going to mentor them the right way. I'm going to mentor them to do the job the correct way and I'm going to expect them to put the damn phone down, focus on the work and I'm going to try to push them. If they're a person who gets in their feelings, me and that person are likely not Going to get along. That's just the way it is.
When I was banting this about in my head, it got me thinking about Johnny Carson. Everybody knows Johnny Carson. Even if you're younger, you know the name Johnny Carson. You may not know the full story of Johnny Carson, but you know the name Johnny Carson, of course. One of the most notable talk show hosts in all history.
Late night talk show specifically. He started from a professional perspective, started in radio in the 50s, then goes on to get his own show in the 50s.
Everybody knows about the Tonight show starting Johnny Carson, even if you never saw it, but you heard about it, you heard the name. He had everybody, he had tons of guests on the show.
Over time he would go and start being basically the most well known, one of the most well known people in the world because it was ubiquitous and everybody wanted to be on the show. And he helped launch a lot of careers and, and he dominated that slot in late night.
What people didn't know about Johnny Carson, I believe Johnny Carson was, I would argue he was the classic introvert.
Johnny Carson was an extremely flawed person, extremely flawed, but he was an introvert at the core.
You may or may not have heard about the fallout with him and Joan Rivers. I'll get to that in a second. But the point is that he was an extreme introvert. But, but you couldn't tell on the show. On the show he's cracking jokes, he's smiling, he's laughing, he's out there, he's touching, he's kissing, he's doing all sorts of stuff.
He cut an interview on 60 Minutes. This is shortly before his death. He's at, I think it's at his home puffing cigarette. And he said something that I wish everybody would understand about introverts because I am an introvert. I'm the textbook definition of an introvert. And I love the way that Carson put introversion. When he described it to the interviewer, he said, I know how to switch it off. There's the home me, the personal me, and then there's the work me. I know how to switch on and switch off. And it is true that there's certain things in my personal I keep to myself because I just keep it to myself. And I do keep this wall up and I don't, you know, put myself out there and I don't cavort with people. He's. That's exactly what it is. He's expressing the person you see on the show is because he's going out there to entertain you. It's his job and he knew he's good at the job. So he goes to work and he switches on and he's. And you, if you watch him in his prime, he's 150% every single day. But the person you would see on the show, it's a mask, it's a facade. It's not real. It's real effort, but it's not the same person.
And it's hard for some people to understand how this paradigm works. I deal with it myself.
There's people that don't get the home you, personal you, and the work you.
The personal you can be whatever you want it to be. The work you is whatever makes the job get done to the best of your ability. The work you doesn't mean that you have to be a workaholic, but it does mean that you should be giving your all to that job. You do have to maintain a clean delineation between the two so that you don't get stressed out or overworked or something. Overburdened. And a lot of people, as you start building the family up, run into interrupting situations that affect your work life.
I would argue if you make certain choices, and this will be controversial, but if you make certain choices, you have to rethink which type of work you're going to do. I had somebody ask me and I'll get back to the pay it forward because it kind of ties in.
I had something, somebody asked me, what do you think about this whole trad wife trend? Tradwife, for those that are older like me, and don't know the term because it's not a real word. Trad wife is a trend spinning on social media about the idea of these younger women who are, for whatever reason, intrigued and fascinated by the traditional wife. You know, wearing what the husband wants and wearing the hair the way the husband wants and taking care of the household and not worrying about college, not worrying about work.
And of course, in the modern feminist movement, this is distasteful for certain people. But this trad wife movement, I was asked, well, what do you think about it? Do I want a trad wife? I don't know. I can tell you one thing. I've been in arguments where I've straight said, I want you to do what you want to do, wear your hair how you want because it's your hair. I'll give you my preference, but it's your hair. I can't tell you what to do with it. And I got attacked for that statement. You're shaking your head it's true. That person straight up attacked me. We got an argument, 15 minutes because I was, I would not give her the answer she wanted about her hair and a proposed hair change. And I'm telling her, I want you to be happy with whatever it is you choose to do. It's your hair, it's not mine, so I can't tell you what to do with it. Some people don't embrace that, fine.
But the idea that somebody's always home, you know, because I work from home, but somebody's always home taking care of the house, they're handling the cleaning, they're handling the cooking, they're handling the dishes, they're handling all these home based things and they're not developing outside of being a housewife. Do I want that? I don't know because I've never been in it, nor have I been close to being in it. I don't think.
And as I try to imagine it, it feels, I understand the appeal, but I'm not sure it would sustain because I've always said if something were to happen to me, you got to have some skills to be able to go to work and take care of yourself. I wouldn't want you to be stuck. And if you're just a housewife, what's that going to mean for you? If something happens to me, if I get, if I drop dead, how are you going to take care of yourself if that's all you do? And then I go back and think, well, in the past, what would they have done? Well, they would have remarried, right? So yeah, there's a way forward, but is that really a fulfilling lifestyle? So I said, I, I don't know, but I doubt it. I think I would feel that it's a balance, you know, you want to have, you know, I would want somebody that works part time, maybe doesn't have to stress themselves out, isn't trying to be the best at the work. They just want to be good at the work and they come home and they take care of the house and whatever. But it's a balance. Not all in to traditional and not all in to be work and all, all in to be college. And I just think it's a balanced middle.
So I educate when I'm asked the question or I'm introduced with it, I educate this idea.
Think about when you're not here, whether it's your spouse or whether it's whatever. Think about when you're not here. Don't think about now, think about when you're not here.
Because at Some point you won't be here. Like you can't say you'll always be here.
You can say you'll always be straight or you'll always be gay or always be bi. You'll always be rich or you always be poor, always beside, you can put absolutes. You can't guarantee any of it. Right? And especially, most absolutely. Especially, you can't say you're always going to be here, always going to be alive. You're always going to be in the mix. Since you can't say that, you know, you can't say that, you have to build and plan and work based on that. The reality that won't be here. Carson, from my perspective, having watched his show and I watched it when he was live and I watched him later on, Carson never, he never understood the concept to pay it forward. Dick Clark, another most legend in the business. Dick Clark is arguably one of the people responsible for the rise of Arsenio Hall. He opened the door for Arsenio hall to get notice, to get notoriety. Same with Andrew Dice Clay. Dick Clark was kind of there helping push these who would later become legends in the business that they're in. Arsenio hall took over the late night segment from Joan Rivers and that's why I'm tying it all back together. Joan Rivers was a frequent guest on the Johnny Carson Show. Joan Rivers went off to get her own show after at one point taking on one of Carson's episodes as a lead host.
Joan Rivers and Carson had a falling out when Joan Rivers got her own show. Part of the falling out, I speculate. And Rivers, when she was alive, said she never understood exactly why. Because Carson wouldn't speak to her. I speculate because Carson was feeling the heat.
Everything was closing in. The industry had changed. Cable starts to be a thing. We take it for granted now at that time, cable starting to really take take off. And it changed the demographics of who's watching and how they're watching and most importantly the time slots.
Thus when Joan Rivers gets her own show opportunity, I believe Carson felt this is the last straw because you had David Letterman, he was right after Tonight Show. So he's poaching some and you have a lot more up and comers and Joan Rivers is one of them. And so Carson now is losing some of that singularity that he would enjoy. Carson was notorious for not being anti women. He was not anti women, but what he was, he was from the old school. The idea of the traditional, this is the woman's role. It's always second to the man he was from that era, that's what he was. Everybody figured he was anti women. He damn sure was not anti women. He simply had it in his mind that the woman is second to the man in everything. And so you get Joan Rivers taking a front seat. I think he took it the wrong way, and I think he probably regretted it, but was too proud to go back on it. Carson, during the period where he's starting to get stressed, he was a heavy drinker. And he said even on the interview when he would drink, it's the reverse of everybody else. Everybody else is turning fun loving. He's turning into a demon against people. That's why he lost a lot of his marriages and everything, because when he would drink and he couldn't stop when he would drink, he would turn into that person. And I believe the drinking was a symptom of the pressure he was under. We see so many celebrities that for whatever reason, turn to alcohol, you know, from the pressure of celebrity status.
But Carson never understood the value of paying it forward.
Because if you looked at at the time, his level of celebrity and his status and his pull, he could have used his leverage to promote Joan Rivers stronger than she did for herself, because she never really took off. She had, I think, two or three shows. She never really took off, despite being one of the funniest comedians out there. We look back now and a lot of women trash Joan Rivers because of some of the nature of the jokes that she would tell, which I frankly thought were absolutely hilarious. She would say, yeah, this is a boa. It used to be Liz Taylor's belt, because Liz Taylor at one point had weight issues. Well, now they're like, oh, you're making fun of weight to date you. She had a joke where she would say something to the effect of, you know, the. The sex life so bad that, you know, when he's over doing push ups, I would just slide right under, you know, that there was some guy who was going to try to rape. And then when he saw me put a. He put a sleeve over his own head.
These.
We look back now, just like with Dice Clay, we look back now and with the bias of now and too much of a focus on getting offended, you're bothered by what that person says. And so you don't recognize at the time and even now, but at the time, she was untouchable on the women's side from a comedy perspective. Monique can't. None of the women, none of the women of the modern can touch what Joan Rivers was doing. She Was so smooth with it. Her delivery was flawless. And she's not serious about it. It's a joke. She's not serious about any of these things. It's not like she's joking about a real situation that happened. She's joking about some throw off, whatever. That doesn't really mean anything. Just like when some of these women are all too happy to listen to some freaking Taylor Swift album, talking about what she's gonna. Some damage she's gonna do to some guy. And you're okay with that? Oh, it's just music. Okay, well, Joan is just a joke. It doesn't matter. It's just entertainment. And that's what she did. And that's why they promoted her for the show. But she had no backing. She had no backing and she was. She was looked. She was vilified. She was vilified by the network. She was vilified by Carson. She was vilified by the public because they all felt. Everybody felt that she was trying to gut business from Carson. And Carson, meanwhile, is dead silent about this. And then you get Arsenio, who took over the slot from Joan Rivers. Arsenio got that slot for one main reason, which was an underserved demographic in an era where cable now is starting to hit a peak. He had a demographic. His demographic was not Joan Rivers demographic. Joan Rivers demographic was not his demographic. They were two different audiences competing for the same slot. Arsenio, you see what happened. He would have. He had every guest under the sun on his show, even beyond what Johnny Carson did. And the difference between Arsenio and Johnny Carson. Carson had a very good casual conversation back and forth, a really good cadence. And it was a calm, like a Larry King. It was a very calm type of interview. But Carson was prepared. He would script his. He would prepare his. Larry King is on record. He would not prepare. He didn't want to read the books. He didn't want to understand them. He wanted to learn at the same time that you and I would do. And he only had that one chick who just walked out and was wrong. Arsenio was friends with a lot of people in the industry by this point. But Arsenio took his show as a blessing. He would take and use it as a platform to promote these artists. He was one of the few that was celebrating Luther Vandross during the time that Luther Vandross was going through the worst of it, because Luther Vandross is on the show multiple times. First he's skinny, then he's fat, then he's Skinny again. And Arsenio called it out of. I'm proud of you, man. You're. You're thin, man. You thin.
Arsenio had a connection with his guests that nobody else was able to touch. Carson couldn't touch it. Rivers couldn't touch it. Oprah can't touch it. None of them can touch it. Everybody else has. Comes across an interrogation. Arsenios is just a regular conversation and a promotion that these people who didn't have a platform before could get shown. He is arguably the reason why people like a Bobby Brown were seen in the mainstream. He's arguably the reason that Bill Clinton was able to garner more votes during that time because of the whole saxophone and all this shit. Right?
The point is that the Joan Rivers era, the Carson era and others couldn't touch what Arsenio did. But Arsenio is another one. He got his push from the Dick Clarks and everything, but because of what was going on during this time and the. Again, Carson not wanting to pay it forward to say, okay, let me put my strength, because I. He wanted to get out of it anyway. He didn't want to be in the business anymore. He was essentially mentally done. He was. He was toast. He didn't want to do it. They kept putting Bob Hope on the show. Bob Hope was a shell of himself from the prime, but the network saw him as talk show royalty. Well, that was burning out Carson because he's like, why do I have to keep interviewing Bob Hope? Bob Hope would have the same jokes. It wasn't getting over.
Carson could have just said, let me just back off this, enjoy my life. I've made enough money. I don't need to be in the limelight and start backing some of these up and coming talk show folks and use my. My strength, my backing to push them and promote them. Why he didn't do that, I don't know, but this is what I'm talking about. That was lacking, strongly lacking in this era of the Johnny Carson, the Tonight Show. For whatever reason, he just refused to do anything to help the younger talent take it to the next level and keep the business thriving as a result. And I speculated, when you see the rise of people like Oprah, I go back, I said that largely, Carson was not anti woman. He felt that the woman plays a secondary role in all. Then you go to Regis and Kathie Lee, right?
I speculated that the rise of Oprah is a direct overreaction to what Carson was doing to suppress the business. And so now you have them like a Kelly Ripa and Oprah's of the world usurping talk show. I mean, you still have like the Howard Sterns and everything, but, you know, by and large, Oprah is bigger, Much bigger, much more substantial. And I always have said, I wish Carson had the right people in his ear. He came from an older time, so I understood why he was the way he was. But I wish that somebody was in his ear with the right messaging to help him understand, look, dude, you got to promote the next generation. You already said you don't want to be here anymore. Let's start that wind down and let's use your notoriety to help promote these people like Bob Hope helped you. Let's be honest, let's use this now and help them. And you can kind of step back. You don't have to get all the way out immediately, but just kind of wean yourself off of it. Have induce some kind of cyclical thing where you're rotating and getting these people in to promote the next. And then you think about it. Joan Rivers absolutely would have helped with the female demographic, and Arsenio hall was already dominating the minority demographic.
You know, George, I mean, you had so many people, so many different demographics that were served by different populations where they absolutely could have taken it to the next level if Johnny Carson had been willing to pay it forward. So my message to everybody, and this applies to whatever your craft, whatever your space, whatever your scope, the concept of pay it forward is the idea. You. You come to grips with the idea you're not always going to be here and there's up and comers behind you. And if you see that they are serving a market, they're serving a value, they're actually doing something positive, positive contributions.
You should use whatever you have, whatever ammunition, whatever knowledge, whatever power, whatever it is, you should be using that to raise them up, not hold them back. You should want them to succeed. You should want them to carry on with whatever it is that you're doing. Some people, if they show the energy and the passion and the desire to continue on with where you started, they're worth investing in. I had situations where people that swore that's what they wanted to do with me as I'm gonna put you in this position and you can carry on my work. And it turned out to be a bunch of bull. I understood there's always these scams out there. So I'm not suggesting for a moment that everybody's legit with that promotion. I'm saying that if you have that ability to do it, it's something that you should really consider doing. And I think that you should push and say, here's what you should do, here's what you should say, here's what you should put forward. Here's how you can be the next, not the next you, but the next X, whatever X is. The next bricklayer, the next computer worker, the next software developer, whatever that is, the next X. And take it to that next extreme. That then becomes your legacy because you pushed somebody else to continue with something and keep it strong. This is where everybody fails. That's why so many, like the Woolworths and things fail because they lose sight of the pay it forward and somebody else comes in and they just completely shift it in the wrong direction, kills the business. Sears is another great example. That's an abstract example, but it's the same concept. The idea that you don't continue and push forward with this is what we have. We want somebody else to continue it. Sure, you want to improve it, but don't gut it and don't kill it and don't hold other people back. Because if you continue with what has worked and you promote people to come after you, you create legacy for yourself and you create sustainability for society.
